Flow - Forum - Recent Threads

Mass Flow Meter Problem

boxyman — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:05:49 GMT

Hello all, I'm new here I'm Instrumentation Engineer working in oil & gas field in our site we have a lot of mass flow meters and calibration is done periodically from 2 weeks ago I calibrated a rosemount mass flow meter, the initial error was 0.1% after adjusting the mass calibration factor and took 3 consecutive runs the error reduced to 0.02% and this is acceptable then from 4 days ago I wanted to make a verification on the same mass flow meter and I found the error increased again to 0.1 % !! could anyone make it clear to me why this happens !?
Note: the flow rate is constant in all runs (20 kg/min) and also the fluid density....
Waiting a helpful feedback.
Thanks, boxyman

Emerson Expands Line of Micro Motion Elite Series Coriolis Flowmeters

Major Chu — Mon, 27 May 2013 02:01:25 GMT

Emerson Process Management has added the Micro Motion Elite CMFS sensor platform to its line of Coriolis flowmeters to deliver precise measurement to smaller line sizes (pipelines less than 2 inches or DN50). The new sensor platform expands the Elite family of flowmetres, whose functionality, line size breadth, accuracy, and flexibility make them ideal for a wide range of real-world applications.

The new Micro Motion Elite CMFS sensor platform features an optimum level of scalability and standardization. With nine distinct sensor sizes in three compact footprints, from 1 mm to 50 mm in nominal diameter lines sizes (1/12” to 2”), this meter delivers ±0.05% liquid flow mass and volume accuracy, ±0.25 percent gas accuracy and ±0.0002 g/cc density accuracy for flow rates of 0.04 lb/min to 1,980 lb/min (1kg/h to 54,000kg/h).

The new Elite CMFS platform features a compact, lightweight, and fully drainable design, optimized for measurement performance in the most critical and demanding applications. The meter offers high rangeability with a turndown ratio up to 30:1, and optimal performance with supreme stability and sensitivity. The robust meter design provides accurate measurements even in challenging fluid conditions such as changing densities, pressures, temperatures, or viscosities. In addition, Elite meters provide an ideal flow measurement platform for reliable, repeatable measurement in transient two-phase flow conditions. The new meters are virtually immune to pipeline vibration, changing process conditions, mounting or environmental effects.

The ELITE CMFS platform is designed to serve a wide range of applications including chemical injection, production blending, process gas solutions and batching operations in a variety of industries including chemical, oil and gas, food and beverage, life sciences and pharmaceutical industries along with integrators and skid builders. For corrosive and high pressure applications, the meters are available in Stainless Steel 316L and Nickel Alloy C22 construction and are rated to 6,000 psi (413 bar). For cryogenic and high temperature applications, the meter handles process temperatures from -240°C to 204°C (-400°F to +400°F). Optional 316L polished exteriors makes the meters ideal for sanitary, hygienic and offshore installations. In addition, the new meters are 3A and European Hygienic Engineering & Design Group (EHEDG) approved with 15 and 32 Ra surface finish options.

The new ELITE CMFS meters are easily integrated into processes with a wide range of transmitter options featuring integral or remote mounting options. They also offer a wide range of protocols that include HART, Foundation fieldbus, Profibus PA, Profibus DP, Modbus, or EtherNet/IP. Emerson's Micro Motion global ISO/IEC17025 network of calibration centers allows for precise meter calibration with measurement uncertainties of ±0.014%.

ELITE CMFS meters are available with Smart Meter Verification, which offers advanced diagnostics of meter health and performance, without removing the sensor from the line, and without interrupting the process.

Density calculation of MV transmitter

qi lou — Mon, 06 May 2013 09:00:01 GMT

I would like to know if process pressure or temperature is out of operation range set in MV configuration files. How the transmitter calculate fluid density?

Flowmeter for extremely variable flow

PorridgeMan — Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:02:24 GMT

Dear Community,

I am seeking advice on suitable type(s) of flowmeter, if any, for measuring extremely variable flow. By that I mean flow that fluctuates from zero to full scale continuously with an unsteady period of 5-10 seconds.

I am a mechanical engineer working on a wave energy project and only have a superficial understanding of and limited practical experience with flowmeters. I have used vortex and PD flowmeters in the past on similar applications, but I was not involved in their selection and the measurements were poor. A Google search located the article “Optimizing Flowmeter Selection” by Brian Fretschel and Amy Johnson, which I found very informative, but did not deal with the subject of non-steady flow.

I have contacted a range of suppliers who have variously quoted DP, magflow, turbine and vortex flowmeters. However, when I ask them about the dynamic responses to unsteady flow, they have no information to offer or they say sorry, too hard. I’m sure there’s people out there with the capacity to assess our requirements properly, but it’s clear I’m going to have to do some detailed investigation myself first.

So my question is: does this requirement to measure unsteady flow exclude certain types of flowmeter? If so, what types should I consider?

Thanks,

David.

Compressor Surge Control Flow Measurement

Jim Cahill — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:52:00 GMT

I received this question on one of my blog posts, Surge Control Considerations in Centrifugal Compressors:

dear jim

i have a question? the PV equation of woodward A/S controller have firstly, the flow (orifice flow) from second to third stage . the transferencial function of this flow transmiter is cuadratic or lineal? for the analog output.?

very thanks for your time.

I appreciate your thoughts in how to respond.

Vortex Flowmeter Pros, Cons, and Watch Outs

Brad Burton — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:27:03 GMT

I saw a post from Greg McMillan, Tip #11: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Vortex Flowmeters- http://automation.isa.org/2013/01/tip-11-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-of-vortex-flowmeters/

In the post he noted that vortex technology can be an excellent choice for a wide variety of flow measurement applications.

I think that vortex technology is particularly well-suited for steam applications, where vortex technology simplifies installation and eliminates maintenance issues with impulse lines.

I also think that it is important to note that vortex technology has been greatly improved since the initial development of the technology. For example, the Rosemount 8800 Vortex overcomes traditional limitations around plugging and vibration. The Rosemount vortex has a gasket-free meter body and contains no ports or crevices which lead to plugging in other manufacturer's vortex designs. Addtionally, the development of Rosemount's Adaptive Digital Signal Processing virtually eliminates issues with vibration.

On another note, I think the issue with low flow cut-off in vortex technology is overstated. Commonly, the low flow cut-off for a vortex meter can be set as low as 5,000 Reynolds number, nearly the accepted lower limit for turbulent flow. Other technologies, such as differential pressure flowmeters, require turbulent flow for the technology to accurately measure flow. Would you rather have a meter that reported no flow when it was out of its accurate operating range, or have the meter show a flow rate even if it was grossly inaccurate? What do you think?

Optimizing Flowmeter Selection

Brian Fretschel — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 18:28:42 GMT

"With countless flow measuring instruments currently available, making an optimal flowmeter choice is often a daunting task. Users have traditionally based their flowmeter selection decision on price and published product specifications.

However, users have also discovered that:

Flowmeter selection decisions based on the lowest price often result in the highest installed cost
Selecting the highest accuracy meter based on product specifications often results in the least measurement accuracy in actual applications
Relying on a comparison of published product specifications alone may actually result in costly process downtime.

After experiencing some of the risks in using these outdated selection techniques, many users are seeking a best-in-class approach to flowmeter selection that can consistently produce optimal decisions. To avoid surprises and reduce project risks, a systematic repeatable approach based on best-in-class methodology is required to identify the optimal flowmeter selection in virtually any flow application."

What is your favorite flowmeter selection methodology? Below is a link to a recently written article outlining simple, yet often overlooked, methodologies to selecting the right flowmeter.

http://www.plantengineering.com/home/single-article/optimizing-flowmeter-selection/213fccd9dd6aa4a51bebc235be01cf2d.html

Differential Pressure Pros, Cons, and Watch Outs

Jim Cahill — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 14:17:27 GMT

I wanted to highlight a blog post by Hunter Vegas, Tip #13: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of Differential Pressure Flow Devices, over at the ISA Interchange blog. This tip is from a book on which Hunter collaborated with Greg McMillan, 101 Tips to a Successful Automation Career.

In the post, Hunter shares his perspectives on pros, cons, and things to watch out for on the use of DP for flow measurement.

What perspectives would you add?

Fseries core processor

Andi nurcahyo — Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:23:36 GMT

Is it possible to replace core processor of Fseries F300 (firmware 3.12) with core processor from F050 (firmware 3.1), both are type 700 but different firmware, after the following parameter flow call, k1,k2, TC, FD, D1 and D2 being input can it be used straight away?

Fseries for latex batch application standard core processor

Andi nurcahyo — Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:22:54 GMT

Guys I have the following product installed

F300S355CCAZEZZZZ and 1700 transmitter and puck700 standard processor to measure latex flow and integrate the flow into mass total inside deltav, the problems:

1. Erratic flow reading when there is actual flow or when no flow

and Alarm A102 drive over range often showed up. There might be bubble on process fluid, please need your advise of necessary modification in the line to take care this bubble problem? one of my colleague suggest installing RO/back pressure valve downstream of the flowmeter, can this help? any proven result?

2. Is it true an enhanced core processor could give better measurement even when there is bubble inside the process fluid? can I replace current standard core to this enhanced core processor without replacing the sensor and the transmitter?

3. The integration of flow into mass total was perform inside deltaV with fastest scan rate of 0,1 second, sometimes the totalizer on the flowmeter is different with the one inside deltaV, any suggestion?

Thanks

Rosemount Vortex Flow Transmitter Problem

evil.genius — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:35:12 GMT

We have Rosemount Vortex Flow Transmitter (Model 8800C) installed at water line. This line contains Dematerialize Water (0.5 µs) & Sea Water (60,000µs) - both type of water is passed through this line in different scenarios.

Minimum flow present in this line is: 1m3/hr.

Minimum Pressure present in this line is: 1.5 Kg/cm2

Upsteam Line Dia = 2”

Downstream Line Dia = 1.5”

LRV & URV Settings of this Vortex Flow transmitter is: 0 m3/h & 5m3/h.

The major problem is, Transmitters take a lot of time to grasp the reading once the line gets empty & refill. Also sometimes transmitter get Saturated at 105% or at 45% etc. etc irrespective the flow is present or not. Moreover We have 08 transmitters installed on 8 different pumps in same fashion for the same purpose & these problems are being faced on all transmitters.

Can you please suggest root cause of these transmitters problem?

We have already checked Float Type Switch, Turbine type (rota) flow meter for this application but both of them did not get successful.

In Float Type Switch, sea water salts deposited on the floating mechanism.

In turbine type flow meter, its rotor often got broken.

Also please suggest any alternate type of flow detecting instrument….

Which type of flow switch would work for our application (considering Demin & Sea water presence + flow rate).

[Any suitable type of Flow switch instead of transmitter would also work for our application as we just need to detect the presence of flow???]

flujo

ausencio guerrero pesina — Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:20:33 GMT

hola necesito saber como hacer una prueba hidrostatica a un fitting de medicion de gas tamaño 16 600# el fitting es nuevo solo quiero asegurarme que no lo vaya a tronar.

hello i need a flow transmitter can any body help me on this matter thank you

amir — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:10:28 GMT

hello i need a flow transmitter can any body help

ausencio guerrero pesina

ausencio guerrero pesina — Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:43:53 GMT

HOW I CAN TO GET A GUIDE TO DO AN HIDROSTATIC TEST TO

Daniel TM SeniorTM Orifice Fittings 16" Ø 600#, IN TO THE MANUAL I CAN´T FIND IT.

I WANT TO KNOW, WHAT IS THE MORE IMPORTANT. BECAUSE THE TEST IS 1200 PSI

FITTING DE MEDICIÓN

ausencio guerrero pesina — Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:33:44 GMT

NECESITO UNA GUIA PARA HACERLE LA PRUEBA HIDROSTATICA A UN DanielTM SeniorTM Orifice Fittings

Cryogenic

Black King — Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:33:59 GMT

Can any one suggest me flow meter for -250 deg cen....

Application : LH2

Regards

Blackking

Calibration Shelf Life and Storage Conditions?

Jim Cahill — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:31:57 GMT

I just received this question by email and wanted to open it up to Emerson flow experts in this track for comment:

I have a general question about flowmeter calibration intervals. We use electromagnetic, Coriolis, and vortex flowmeters in [application removed to protect confidentiality]. Internally, we have requirements that define default flowmeter calibration intervals as 12 months unless justified otherwise. We are familiar with the pain and disruption involved with periodic flowmeter calibrations.

One situation that commonly arises is when we use a flowmeter for testing, remove it and have it recalibrated and returned to us, then the flowmeter sits on a shelf for a few years unused; then we decide to use the flowmeter in a new test. Since that last calibration was more than 12 months ago, by default, the calibration is considered to be expired. However, most flowmeter vendors agree that if the flowmeter is properly stored during that idle time and is not damaged or dropped, the calibration should be as “fresh” as the day it left the calibration facility; i.e., it is service time and service conditions that cause calibration drift, not storage time. In that case the calibration interval “clock” should not start until the unit is actually put into service.

I believe I can make that case with confirming statements from the OEMs that make the flowmeters. However, what I think I need to define more clearly is what those acceptable storage conditions are – hard numbers stating temperature and humidity ranges for example.

Is that information published by Emerson?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you have.

sludge flow meter - shutdown

sludge — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:48:22 GMT

Have process where sludge will enter pipeline after dewatering equipment and must protect equipment upstream of flow meter when there is no sludge in line. Line is not always full of sludge so there could be times flow meter thinks there is a problem when there isn't.

Flow meter's job is to sense if there is an interruption of sludge flow, not send flow signals. Any ideas how I could accomplish this? Site is unmanned.

Soft Seat Material In Daniel Orifice

mohsen — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:26:20 GMT

I saw In Daniel Orifice Document “ Retrofit To Soft Seat Material”. What is the limitation and advantages of Soft Material?

Need help in Coriolis Mass flow meter for High temp application

Riza Galang — Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:51:07 GMT

Hi everyone,

We have a user in Micro Motion Online Community who is looking for a coriolis mass flow meter for 420 Deg C. http://community.micromotion.com/forum_topic.php?forum_id=36&topic_id=504

Process Data

Flow range (600-16000) kg/hr
pressure: 3,5 bar-g
Density: 785 kg/m3
Temp: 360 (flowing) Design (420) in Deg C (We can accept 400 Deg C design for the element i.e the electronics can fail after 400 but the media should not leak upto 420 which means, the limiting factor should not be some seal)
Viscosity: 5 Centi Stokes

We already had somone contacted him, unfortunately, we have no solution that can suit their application requirement. Do you have any ideas about his application and if we can possibly help him in the near future?

Thanks in advance.

Riza

dual orifce meter for custody

pinku1984 — Sat, 26 May 2012 08:52:50 GMT

Dear sir

can you please clarifiy me what are the advantages in daniel dual chamber orifice meter for custody transfer - crude oil

whether dual chamber orifice meter and daniel senior orifice meter are same

with thanks

prabhu

Methods for Measuring the Pressure in the Two-Phase Flow?

Jim Cahill — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:36:20 GMT

I received this question via email from a university student. I appreciate any guidance you can offer... thanks!

Hello.i`m a m.s mechanic student .i`d like know What methods for measuring the pressure in the two-phase flow there? How this device for measuring the pressure in two-phase flow of work? Is it possible that any information that you send me this?
Thank you very much
best regards

Daniel Flange fitting

harripaulm — Mon, 14 May 2012 13:02:59 GMT

Hi, does anyone know where the serial number on a Daniel flange fitting will be located? Mine is painted over and I would like to have an idea where to look.

Rosemount Engineering Assistant software issue

qi lou — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:26:50 GMT

How to change the pressure in fluid properties? When I set the operation pressure range, and then go next, the software will automatically defines some pressure points, I tried to change to the pressure I want. But it is not allowed.

Metallurgy

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 01:23:08 GMT

Where can i get a copy of Daniel's standard metallurgy for orifice pates?